Same as before, but with cheapo. And this time, no insults!



 Crazy 1 - Industrial Town

 Good: A Simple, straightforward level to start the game.

 Bad: Slightly too long.

The creator of the "Crazy" set is the guy who runs http://www.kallex.de/lemmings/
(in case it wasn't obvious)

I wish I would've made my own levels for this game. But after making 120 levels for the first clone, I didn't feel like making any more (I really did like those 120 levels though).

Are they still available for download?  Do they work in Cheapo?

Email me if you want the game (I made my email public on this forum).


It's a different program, and the levels won't work in Cheapo without conversion. Conversion is easy though, just a matter of opening up the old files in the new editor and saving them. If anybody wants to volunteer, I can give them all 120 old level files. The "only" bit of work will be to verify that the different minimum level size doesn't break the level.

 You have the original clone? Please upload! B)

Of course I have it since I made it. I sent you an email.

Not sure how to access the pictures, I'm pretty new to Cheapo...

But moving this along:


Crazy 2 - Mallorca Lemmings

Good: Utilizes the vertical dimension well. Fun to go for 100%. Interesting terrain style.
Bad: Very easy using blockers.

Essman - You're Peter Spada? Cool! Thanks for the link and welcome to the Lemmings forum.

Everyone else - Since he didn't want the link to be public, please email him for it.

Shvegait - Making a screenshot of a cheapo level involves print-screening it frame by frame into paint of another editor so it all lines up, while removing the toolbar. I don't know why mine isn't showing. It's probably a buggy server or hosting service. The url should still work if you want to open it in a different window.

 edit: Essman, I've just tried the game, and it crashes every time I complete a level or pause the game. :-(

Crazy 3: Keep on Building

Good: not too difficult for its position in the set
Bad: tedious, and the background colour is lethal on the eyes!

Crazy 4: White Wilderness

Good: Not too difficult, ideal for its location in the set. I like the terrain presentation.
Bad: Much too straightforward.

Level 5: What do you want to do today?

Good: A nice short level makes a change from the previous 4 long ones
Bad: You have to save them all

Level 6: Wonderful Surroundings

Good: a nice "unobvious route" level -- a puzzle, but a simple one.
Bad: perhaps the 100% requirement makes this slightly too hard for its position.

Crazy 7 - And this is the next level...

Good - Multiple routes, good difficulty for its spot...
Bad - Very simple level, stupid title, and the chain piece that was so interesting in ONML has lost its purpose (In the original Lemmings, lemmings fall if the piece one over and one down is a hole. In Cheapo, they check for the piece directly over. So, in Lemmings, they fall off the chain half way from either direction, and in Cheapo they can walk across the entire chain both ways.)

I played some levels of the first Cheapo and it works well... but with some bugs:

1. The music can suddenly turn off at the start of a level and cannot play anymore unless I restart the game

2. When I quit the game, the game may crash: my screen stay in 256 colors using the resolution: 640 X 480. If I try to change it and put it normally, my computer crash with the error: rundll32.dll and I must restart my computer manually. Also, if I try to open the game again, it crash too! This happen sometimes with the second game Cheapo too.

Everything else is fine! I'm now at Tricky 22! :D

Crazy 8: Only lemmings can survive this

Good: nice use of background colour. A good level, and the right difficulty.
Bad: was anyone else fooled by the one-way wall? It took me ages to realise just how simple this was!!!

Heres Crazy 8: Only lemmings can survive this

-Good: It uses the Columns set, hurrah!
-Bad:   The title

I'm in the middle of converting my 120 old levels to Cheapo format (I'm also at Tricky 22). When I'm done, I'll post a link in this forum.

Um...... you do know after 8 comes 9, not 8 again?  B)

Anyway........

Crazy 9: It's a long way away

Good: clever little puzzle, still not TOO hard
Bad: the "outside route" is rather wasted, as the direct route is much simpler

Crazy 10: SNOW JOKE 2

Good: Refers to the ONML level SNOW JOKE and maintains the spirit of the level with all the useless terrain to the far right.
Bad: They should be starting to get harder than this at this point... This level is too easy!

Too EASY?!? Hell, no. I couldn't do it at all until you posted that it was easy... then I went back and I saw it. And the terrain at the right turned out to be not so useless... I hadn't seen the solution because I hadn't even been thinking about using that part of the level.

Anyway......

Crazy 11: Through the Barricades II

Good: the background colour makes it more interesting and isn't too horrible, though it should have been darker.
Bad: this one really is FAR too simple.

I'm unsure of how the terrain at the far right of Crazy 10 could possibly be used in a solution... I'm talking about the random mountains and water and such...

I know -- but the solution DOES use the terrain just to the right of the exit, and it took me ages because I hadn't thought of using that part at all.

I'm done. Here is a link to the 120 levels that I made many years ago, now converted to work with Cheapo.
WARNING: I didn't test out any of the levels beyond "fun". I'm assuming that the physics of the game have not changed. I'll fix any problems that are found.

Excellent!!!

(Just played Fun in one sitting, I'm a bit Lemmings-overdosed right now.......)

Nice levels. 30 Fun was a little tough, but I think I got the right solution. Could you PM me your solution to check?

Nice sets! (Although I'm a bit unnerved that I passed Mayhem 30 in about 1 minute...)

I've only played certain levels in each set, but I'll let you know what I think when I'm done. I do enjoy what I've played, though.

Well, the original Lemming's Mayhem 30 isn't exactly known for its difficulty either.  ;P

Perfect! I'll continuing playing the sets on the second Cheapo game, bcs there's less bugs on it and there's more features on it too. I'm in the Taxing rating now.

I'm on 7 Tricky, and I haven't had much of a look at it, but it looks ridiculously hard. Can someone who's got past this level please reassure me that I am just missing something and that it won't be TOO hard when I find it?

You are just missing something. This level didn't take me very long at all.

You do realise there's no terrain above the exit, correct?

You mean the entrance I think.

I figure I should continue where the thread left off:

Crazy 12:  Swimming Pool

Good:  Visually appealing.  Then again, it's hard to go wrong visually with the beach style.

Bad:  The most mindnumbing level I've ever played, thanks to its endless, repetitve bridge-building and bashing.  Think "Hunt the Nessy" x 2 (possibly worse).

He does... and it doesn't matter now, I solved it (and I had realised that in the first place, but thank you anyway Steve).

So... Crazy 13, The Fire Place.

Good: nice use of background colour, and it's a short level.
Bad: far too simple, and after too many other levels like it, a bit dull.

Yeah, sorry, that took me longer than 10 minutes to post.

Pressing on:

Crazy 14: One way ticket

Good: The layout of the level
Bad: You need to build to the top of the screen

Crazy 15: iT's VeRy SiMpLe

Good: The title doesn't lie. Only 2 lemmings to save.

Bad: No puzzle to it. I would hope that they'd be getting harder by this point.

Crazy 16: Oh No! More Lemmings

Good: nice puzzle -- they really ARE getting harder now -- but fortunately not too much so
Bad: awful title

Crazy 17: 4:40 lemathon part 3

Good: You need to keep an eye on all 4 lemmings
Bad: I still havn't solved it! Grrrr!

Really? That's one of the easier levels....... if you need a hint, remember that you have the same number of climbers and floaters as you have lemmings!

Crazy 18: Snowed in!

Good: messing about with bridges...... and teaches the "ground in front of exit" trick, which reminds me that I haven't introduced it in my levels yet......
Bad: there's no puzzle to it, and it's still not that hard

Since we finished the Megadrive levels on the "Lemming Level List Game" thread, I thought I'd help finish this up.

Crazy 19: No time to sleep

Good: The obvious route isn't possible within the time limit, so you have to find another way around
Bad: The "Intended solution" isn't even that hard to figure out.

Crazy 20: The Twin Sandy Bridges

Good: nice 100% level with minimal skills
Bad: for the last level of the set, it's just too easy

-- and that's that done at last! Wahey!

OK, time to decide what set to review next.

I'm going to re-post here (if Conway doesn't mind) the rules from the CustLemm Level List Game, since they seem sensible enough.

1. At any time while a pack is being reviewed, a member can suggest the next levelpack. [It can be your own or someone else's.]

 2. If you don't want your levelpack(s) reviewed, you must explicitly say so. If the author of a nominated levelpack doesn't permit or refuse the review, we can assume it's okay.

 3. You cannot review the same pack twice unless for some reason the majority of the members want to.

 4. You cannot review two levelpacks in a row from the same author.

 5. As with the Lemming Level List Game, you must give a good and bad point about the level you are reviewing.

 6. You cannot review two levels in succession.

 7. You cannot review your own level, but I suppose that goes without saying!

[EDIT: additional rule 8. You must have seriously tried to complete the level you're reviewing. It helps if you know the solution, either by having completed it or by some other means, but it's not essential.]

- - -

I'd like to nominate my notebook set (http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/Notebook.ZIP) as the first set to review. It's short (only 11 levels) so if anyone else has a set they want to review we can get onto it pretty soon. If you already have the set, please re-download it from the link I just gave to make sure you have the newest version!

My set (like most of my levels) uses the Lemmus styles, which you can download at http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/Lemmus.zip -- the set doesn't use all nine styles but I thought I'd put them all together since they'll be needed if we review any more of my sets!

So, anyone up for starting?

Michaels's Notebook - Level 1 - Lemming Coxton
 Save: 74/80
 Time: 4:00
 RR: 99
 Skills: 1 of everything

 Good: A nice simple level to begin the pack, and it gives a taster of levels that make the most of a few skills.

 Bad: Not much design here. The layout is far too basic.

Michael's Notebook - Level 2 - One Way Bashing

Save: 18 out of 20
Time: 05:00
RR: 88
Skills: 2 climb, 2 float, 1 bomb, 1 block, 3 bash, 1 dig

Good: The name doesn't lie. You have to think about what order you do things in.

Bad: The name doesn't lie! Very straightforward and obvious.

Oh, I don't have a picture of the level. I'll do all the LemEdit pictures as long as other people handle the Cheapo ones :) I saw, Conway, that you have a directory for the set, but only the first picture. Were you planning on filling the rest in?

I was planning to add the rest. I'll have to find time later. Also, since Cheapo works at a much higher resolution than DOS Lemmings, it might be a good idea just to link to the images so the page doesn't take ages to load.

 More screenshots to come shortly . . .

You could review level 3 while we're waiting....... since it seems only you two are in on this, plus me but of course I can't review my own levels!

Screenshots are up! http://uk.geocities.com/benjconway79/pictures/michaels_notebook

 http://uk.geocities.com/benjconway79/pictures/michaels_notebook/3.png
 Michael's Notebook Level 3 - Somewhere Under the Rainbow
 Save: 5/10
 Time: 3:00
 RR: 50
 Skills:
   Climbers: 3
   Floaters: 3
   Bombers: 3
   Blockers: 1
   Builders: 3
   Bashers: 3

 Good: A good practice with using bombers in just the right place.

 Bad: Can be annoying if you don't like timing bombers.

You can actually get away with not timing bombers (to some extent) by saving the blocker to be used for the final bombing.  This of course does require you to deal with the right entrance a little differently, but it also lets you save 7 lemmings.

Michael's Notebook Level 4 - Cooperation
Good - A nice little trick of timed miners.
Bad - You have to change the release rate for the trick to work.

Please could I have my Adam's Lemmings Again set reviewed next?

What? Why do you have to change the release rate? (I didn't.)


Michael's Notebook - Level 5 - Slow and Steady

Save: 50 out of 50
Time: 2:00
RR: 1
Skills: 30 builders

Good: You can't be wasteful with your builders. This kind of level is always fun to see how few builders you can get away with using.
Bad: There are already many levels just like this!

I was just my timing of the miners, I had to change the release rate, timing them differently means you don't have to.

A couple of points about "Slow and Steady":

It would be quite a good level to do a hard version of, because you can actually do it with _much_ fewer builders than you're given. Make lemmings two, three and four erect a "bridge wall" under the trapdoor.....

And there aren't many levels like that on the original game! Don't forget that when I made these levels I didn't know there were such things as programs that let you make your own levels (actually, back then there probably weren't). I know it's an obvious idea.... but I had to do it, just because it's the sort of level I'd have a lot of fun playing!  :P

Yes you're right. I guess I'm just jaded. It was still fun  :D

No problem.  :D  And I'm grateful that you didn't list "no effort made to make the level visually appealing" as your bad point -- that would get a bit tedious, since it applies to all the ones in this set!

Thank you Conway, now I can use screenshots!

Michaels Notebook - Level 6 - "provided its safe"

Save: 49 out of 50
Time: 4:00  
RR: 50

Skills: 1 Bomber
        1 Blocker
       12 Builders

Good: It uses one of my favourite tricks

Bad: Far too simple to be this late in the set

What trick is that exactly?

Where you make the builder a blocker, and make another lemming into a builder facing the opposite direction

Ah yes  :D  I wouldn't have described that as a "trick" myself, it's a bit too simple, so I wasn't quite sure what you meant.

I wonder, what would you have described it as then?

Um.... I don't know. A device, perhaps. It's just that "trick" suggests something out of the ordinary, something you have to think to work out. Like the trick with diggers on "We All Fall Down", to take just the simplest example.

Michaels Notebook - Level 7 - "Square Donut"

Save: 8 out of 10
Time: 4:00  
RR: 99

Skills: 0 bashers, 10 builders, 2 of everything else

Good:  A bit less straightforward than some of the other levels, requiring a bit of thought and experimentation to deal with the entrance area.  Also, neat title and visual concept for the entrance area.

Bad:  Building across gets a little repetitive.  Also, I never found out what solution Michael intended because what he thought was his intended solution he couldn't get it to work.

I still haven't managed "Square Doughnut"  X_X It's a tough one.

Michael's Notebook - Level 8 - The Thirteenth Task

Save: 50/50
RR: 1
Time: 5:00

Skills: 1 of each

Good: You have to think about how to save the climber. Good, simple layout.

Bad: Most of what you have to do is obvious, and the rest can be figured out afterwards. What's with the title?

Um....... I think I was deep into my Asterix phase at the time. One of the books is called "The Twelve Tasks of Asterix", you see.

BTW, I think Conway and Insane Steve have both solved "Square Doughnut"..... if you could post your solutions, it might help me remember what the intended solution was!  :P

It's funny. I'm sure I originally solved Square Doughnut, but I just tried it now and I can't remember how. It seems to be one builder short!

Michael's Notebook Level 9 - Manclimber United
 Save: 10/10
 Time: 1:00
 RR: 1
 Skills: 10 climbers, 1 of everything else.

 Good: A nice layout that almost convinces you it's straightforward.

 Bad: It uses a VERY cheap but unoriginal trick.

So.... is no-one prepared to do Behind Bars? Has it stumped you all completely thus far? (I see from the screenshot that Conway now has the latest version, which is DEFINITELY possible.... in fact I know of three solutions.)

That's the same version I've seen and done right?  Or should I redownload again?

No, that's the same version you've done.

Well, maybe I can review it if no one else wants to.  But not at least until I'm through with your Backroute Remake Set first.

Let's get the ball rolling again.
[URL=http://uk.geocities.com/benjconway79/pictures/michaels_notebook/10.png]Michael's Notebook 10 - Behind Bars
Good : Nice Layout, visually pleasing and it has two possible solutions
Bad : It is a very big step in difficulty from "Manclimber United"

Michael's Notebook - Level 11 - Somewhere Under The Rainbow II

Save: 5/10
RR: 50
Time: 1:00

Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 1 builder, 1 digger

Good: Seems almost impossible at first. Has a very clever solution! Fun to figure out.

Bad: The exit isn't in the center of the level, it's off to the right a little. That's all :P

Thank you, Shvegait! And thanks for the comment........

So, "Adam's lemmings again". I propose we skip the ones that are just remakes, as this is a long set. Thus, we start with:

Level 2: What the hell? [Screenshot forthcoming. Maybe.]

Save 100% of 60
Release rate 99
2 minutes

Skills: 20 of everything

Good: the fast release rate, the short time, and having to save 100% all make you think.
Bad: pretty easy and nothing especially original

Adam's lemmings again. - Level 3 - The two lone lemmings.

Save 2/2
RR: 99
Time: 3:00

Skills: 2 each of climb, float, bomb, block. 10 each of build, bash, mine, dig

Good: It's fun to get the lemmings into the visible exit. Plus it's short and not tedious.

Bad: The most direct way of getting the lemmings into the visible exit reveals a hidden exit, making the effort to get the lemmings into the visible one seem not worth it...

Level 4 - No-one said this was going to be easy

Bad: The exit doesn't work!!! Surely this must be impossible?

Adams Lemmings Again - Level 5 - Very... Symmetrical

Save 40 out of 40
Release Rate: 40
Time: 2:00

Skills: 2 Climbers
         2 Floaters
         2 Builders
         2 Diggers

Good: The title describes the layout of the level very well

Bad: You only have two destructive skills, and you need at least 3, probably uses a trick I don't know about yet.

Um...... on my copy I have 2 each of climbers, floaters, BASHERS and diggers. You still need a clever trick, but having bashers certainly helps!

Level 6: Four for four

Save 100% of 4
Release rate 4
4 minutes 44 seconds

14 builders, 3 bashers, 1 digger

Good: lovely layout that mixes different styles without going over the top -- and it's short and fun! Also, I like having a small number of lemmings.

Bad: You feel that having four trapdoors hasn't added much to the level except visually.

AND LOOK -- THIS IS MY 444TH POST! HOW APPROPRIATE IS THAT!!!  :P

No, my copy doesnt have bashers, Adam could you send me the latest version of your pack?

Thank you for all of your comments
The last version of my set seemed to have some problems, so I've redone some levels. If you all don't mind please could we restart?
Download it here

Download isn't working..........

It does now

Why did you zip the .lst file and not the .set file?

For anyone who's stuck on any of the levels of my notebook set, I've written a walkthrough: http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/Notebook.html

Ahribar, interesting solution for level 4 (Cooperation).  That's of course the most natural thing to try, but back when I was playing I never got it to work, so instead I did this (the so-called "collision timing" method):

Have a lemming mine to the right, and then bash towards the exit when he is 6-7 pixels deep, so that the lemmings can walk up and over where the basher just bashed.  After he emerges on the other side of the wall, have a second lemming who walked up and over mine to the right a little ways right of the basher.

If positioned and timed right, the miner will clear enough ground to cause the basher to stop, while the basher will bash out the ground underneath the miner causing the miner to fall and stop mining.

Whoops, a human error, it's now fixed.

Right, let's get on with it then!

Level 6: The chasm with no end?

Save 100% of 20
Release rate 50
8 minutes

1 bomber, 1 blocker, 10 each of builder, basher, miner, digger

Good: a nice "hidden exit" level in which, for once, the exit _isn't_ in the most obvious place
Bad: when you know where the exit is it's too easy, and when you don't it could well be too frustrating

Level 7: A lemming in need is a lemming indeed

Save 2 out of 2
Release Rate: 99
Time: 2:30

Skills: 9 Builders
         1 Bashers

Good: Very nice title, probably the best of the set.

Bad: It's mostly building.

Level 9: A simple bashing exercise, no?

Save 100% of 60
Release rate 99
3 minutes

Good: Don't ask why, I really enjoy doing the zigzag building.
Bad: There's nothing to it except building and then bashing, and you get more builders than you need.

Level 10: Out of two into one

Save 58/60
RR: 60
Time: 3:00
Skills: 2 climb, 2 float, 1 bomb, 1 block, 2 bash, 2 mine, 2 dig

Good: A much better level than it was before! Thanks for lowering the time limit. (i.e. Makes you think about how to deal with the time limit.) Fun to figure out :)

Bad: There's one non-metal looking bar that has a metal bounding box around it (You can't dig through it but it looks like you can.) Also, I'm wondering, is the hidden trap blocking the upper exit necessary? I think it might be impossible to get lemmings into both exits with the limited skills.

As a note, Adam, the trap only killed one lemming for me, since its height is a little off. (But still I don't think you need the trap at all.)

Level 13: Help from a friend

Save 100% of 9
Release rate 60
4 minutes

15 builders, 5 diggers

Good: another one that's fun to do and not too easy -- I'm glad Adam reduced the skills!
Bad: rather ugly the way the graphics are all clumped up in one corner of the level

Thanks all of you, I'll make improvements to the levels where it's needed, only about another 14 to go!

Level 14: Think about it, what would I do?

Save 60 out of 60
Release Rate: 99
Time: 1:40

Skills: 1 Bomber
         1 Blocker
       25 Builders
         1 Basher
         1 Miner
         1 Digger

Good: The obvious route is impossible

Bad: finding the fake metal.

EDIT: Level 14 not 15

That's 14 in his updated set.

Level 15: What the hell? The harder one

Save 60/60
RR: 99
Time: 3:00
Skills: 0 climbers, 0 floaters, 25 builders, 20 of everything else
 
Good: You have to think about how to manage the different groups, and you don't have much time to deal with the lower-right group.

Bad: I liked my climber solution (old version) better than the zigzag building  :-(

Thanks for pointing that out, I was gonna change it to 14 after I'd finished the post, but I forgot :)

It's ok, I mostly just didn't want to look like an idiot for covering Level 15 after it had seemingly already been covered :P

Let's get this thing back on track . . . ;)

Adam's Lemmings Again Level: 16 - Oh Hell!

 Save: 30/30
 Time: 5 minutes
 RR: 1
 Skills:
   Bombers: 2
   Blockers: 2
   Builders: 36
   Bashers: 1
   Miners: 2
   Diggers: 3

 Good: A fun level with a not-so-obvious solution.

 Bad: Too much building!

Level 17: Very... symmetrical

Save 100% of 40
Release rate 40
1 minute 30 seconds

Skills: 1 of each

Good: short and clever level that requires you to notice something about the layout. Nice hint in the title.
Bad: I'm not sure why Adam changed it to one exit instead of two.

It's for a third level in a new set there's going to be some terrain differences and having two exits means that the level won't work properly. As for this level, think of it as a transition.

Plodding Forward...

Level 19: Tough Decision making

Save 49 of 50
Release Rate: 99
Time: 4:00

Skills: 1 Blocker
         5 Builders
       10 bashers

Good: Nice effect with the blue lattice
Bad: The bottom route seems impossible, and the hidden trap at the top can bypassed by building a brick before bashing (I don't know if this is intended though)

Level 23: Nas Gnimmel Awnabnok

Save 100% of 20
Release rate 99
5 minutes

Good: interesting idea (though not exactly very original). Also, the 100% requirement makes it not trivial
Bad: with 20 of everything it's far too easy. Especially as you have few enough lemmings you can make them all floaters.

Level 24: Trust me, I'm a lemming

Save 60 of 60
Time: 3:00
Release Rate: 60


Skills: 15 of each

Good: The tight time limit makes you think about the solution
Bad: You an see the top of the lights of one exit which in turn makes the level very easy

Level 25: Something's coming over me

Save 10/10
RR: 1
Skills: 1 blocker, 5 builders, 1 miner, 1 digger

Good: Umm...

Bad: Probably a backroute. With the RR so low, you only need the digger to trap all the lemmings, then mine to the right, and it's over... This doesn't use the blocker or the builders. I don't know what the intended solution is...

Isu: that's the only exit. The arrow pointing into the mound is a ruse. And it's only easy if you spot it......

As for level 25, does the intended route perhaps involve building directly over the exit while using the blocker to keep the other lemmings back?

- - -

Level 26: For the perfect people out there

Save 100% of 60
Release rate 60
4 minutes

1 blocker, basher, miner; 9 builders

Good: a neat exercise in "stretching" bridges, not too exasperating because you don't need to be perfect.... but nearly
Bad: no puzzle element

Is it? O_o Oh, well I only played it once so I didn't know...

OK, in keeping with the decision that's been made about the CustLemm Level List Game, I'm going to review two levels in succession, but note that this still should not normally be done unless the topic is idle for a long time.

Adam's Lemmings 27 -- Just another level

Save 100% of 100
Release rate 99
6 minutes

Skills: 15 of everything

Good: Fun to do, and the 100% target makes it not completely straightforward
Bad: Easy (yet another "lots of everything" level). Also, the layout is rather cramped in the top corner, which doesn't look great

We are coming to the end here, and we have no set to review next. I'd like to nominate my first 'Isulemms' set' (piainp.set) to be the next one up for review. I'd like to know what people thought on it, as I never got much feedback.

Level 29: Look out again there are still a few more traps about

Save 40 of 40
Time: 6:00
Release Rate: 1


Skills: 12 Builders
           3 Bashers
           2 Miners
           2 Diggers

Good: I actually quite like this one, because it is both simple and hard. The route to the exit is not difficult to find, but difficult to pull off. The different music is a nice change too.
Bad: Build, Build, Mine. Build, Build, Bash etc...

I'll let someone else do level 30. There is NO WAY that I'm ever going to finish that level anytime soon ;)

EDIT: Ack, found a bad point...

Level 30: Every last skill counts

Save 100% of 200
Release rate 255
30 minutes

1 climber, 79 builders, 11 bashers, 17 diggers

Good: lovely long and relaxing level. I played it when I had a bad cold and really needed to do something calm and soothing. And you really have to make optimum use of the given skills.
Bad: Very long -- I can imagine that if you didn't have a cold it would seem tedious. Though thank goodness for Cheapo's replay feature! Also, not very much of a puzzle element.

So, are we going to do another cheapo set? (Preferrably mine :D) Screenshots at: http://www.cjb.cc/members/piainp/Isu/Isulemms/

I'd rather do your style trial (even though I'm still working my way through it!)

I haven't really played those levels enough to participate, I'm afraid. One set I'd like to do at some point is Insane Steve's first set, if someone could post a list of levels just to jog my memory; but Isu asked first so we'll do one of his sets first.

Well it's up to you, Isu. Isulemms or Style Trial? On second thoughts, Isulemms might be better in practical terms, since more people will have played that pack.

What do you mean by my "first" set... I.S. #1? I'm cool with using any of my Cheapo sets in this game.

Although, yes, Isu asked first, so we should do one of his sets first. I don't mind which one: Both are good.

Yes, I thought that you would :D.

I say Isulemms, because it was my first, and because I went to the trouble of uploading  screenshots. Not only that, but Style Trial isn't exactly finished, you only have part one.

Well, I know it's about a month on from you finished my set but still. Thanks for the comments and as a couple of you know I'm working on making my next level pack. Don't expect it until September though as it contains 200 levels and I'm making about 10 per day at the moment but as imagination runs out I'm sure the amount per day will drop.

Just remember, quality over quantity!  B)

Does anybody want to review the first level? It's been a month already.

(a not-so-subtle BUMP)

Seems about time to revive this thread. (Sorry for the 2 month wait, Isu!)


Isulemms - Level 1: Step into the unknown

Save 45/50
RR: 5
Time: 6:00
Skills: 20 climb, 19 float, 18 bomb, 17 block, 17 build, 18 bash, 19 mine, 20 dig

Good: You have to think a little bit about how to save them all with 17 builders or less. Seems like a good intro to the set.

Bad: Almighty Hydra's style ;P (High-Tech... bricks?)


(Note: Maybe you can shrink the screenshots a bit? They're huge! I think you're giving 2 pixels to each in-game pixel.)

Well, I happen to like this style.   ;)

Isulemms stage 2: A Cheap Difference

Save 20/20
RR: 88
Time: 1:00
Tasks: 20 bombers, 7 builders, 1 digger

Good: The design is simple-looking, but the solution isn't quite as obvious as it seems at first glance. A nice early in the set level.

Bad: There's nothing really "cheap" about this one. And why 20 bombers? Just curious.

That level actually took me a good while to figure out, but this was one of the first Cheapo sets I played. Now it seems so easy (but it is just level 2 after all!)


Isulemms - Level 3: Fiery Chambers

Save 15/20
RR: 1
Time: 6:00
Skills: 1 climb, 2 float, 5 bomb, 7 block, 7 build, 5 bash, 2 mine, 1 dig

Good: There's a bit of variety in the terrain. There's little room for error, which is good for this level because it makes you think of the best way to do what you need to do.

Bad: It's rather straightforward. The fires at the end seem too easy to avoid.

Back when I first made this set, I never really knew what a 'cheap' level was, only something that the player would not expect. I thought flipping a trapdoor was cheap, but back then I knew nothing. :D
The twenty bombers were mere decoration. I thought of it as a fancy alternative to 'nuke'.


Erm, they're just pasted print-screeners so the resolution is about 640x480. Oops, big mistake.  X_X

EDIT: Fixed

Next time, PrintScreen from the level editor instead (zoom all the way out of course).

http://www.cjb.cc/members/piainp/Isu/Isulemms/Isu04.PNG


Isulemms Level 4: The Watcher in the night

No. of Lems: 100
To save: 98
Skills: One of each
Time: 1:45
RR: 99

Good: A nicely done level and a good title. I also like the fact that
the skills are one of each.
Bad: Sometimes annoying for precision.

(I like your levels, Isu!)  :thumbsup:

Fixed ^_^

And welcome back, or should I really say "Hello there" since I registered after you left :P

Whoops...my mistake...  ;P

I like your Style Trial levels. They're really cool and most of your levels are nicely done (like the Towering Inferno).

Isulemms Level 5: Cry for me

Save 100% of 80
Release rate 88
3 minutes
62 climbers, 10 floaters, 4 builders, 2 bashers, 1 miner

Good: brilliant puzzle level, with so many plausible tries that just fail.

Bad: when you finally get there, the actual solution isn't really as interesting as most of the "red herrings".

^ That is the ONLY level I can fully remember creating from one of my old notebooks. It is also one of my favourite levels of all time, because of the simple terrain/difficult solution paradox, and the fact that it contains multiple trapdoors.
Brilliant (If I don't day so myself). :D

Also, could you PM me your solution? I wouldn't say that the intended solution is uninteresting, so it makes me wonder...

Fine, we've had a week, no-one's posted, so I'll do Level 6 too. But I do wish people would get back to this thread; it's fun, and I'd like to do my levels here at some stage...........



Isulemms Level 6: Two entrances, two exits

Save 100% of 60
Release rate 11
6 minutes

8 climbers, 7 floaters, 6 bombers, 5 blockers, 4 builders, 3 bashers, 2 miners, 1 digger

Good: You need to use your skills carefully (you have just the right number of the last four)

Bad: The upper-left part seems a bit wasted; although it's necessary in order to leave you with just enough skills for the rest, there's no puzzle there. The trap seems misplaced, since it's so easy to get round. And there's not really any trick to the solution; all the moves required are pretty obvious.

I'll do level 7 later.

:agree:

Why aren't people posting here anymore? Ahribar, I couldn't do level  6 because...well...it seems hard.

Anyway, onto level 7:



Level 7: The Gap
No. of Lems: 100
To save: 100
Skills: 20 diggers, builders and bombers
Time: 4:00
RR: 1

Good: Level design
Bad: No need for bombers...and too many diggers!!!!

Isulemms - Level 8: The never-ending dark
   
100 Lems  
95 to save  
RR: 70
Time: 3 minutes
Skills: 99 floaters, 7 bombers, 7 blockers, 7 bombers.

Good: 2 exits. You have to think about which one you can access, although it is pretty obvious which is the easier way to go.

Bad: Level description: "There's not much to this level." It's true.

Level 9: The Crown Jewels

No. of Lems: 2
To save: 2
Skills: 1 floater, 4 bombers, 3 blockers, 15 builders, 5 bashers, 8 miners, 7 diggers
Time: 4:00
RR: 1

Good: Sneaky
Bad: Bad color, and too easy!

I assure you that it's a lot easier than it seems!

I have to go now, but when I get back I'll do the next level that's not yet done by then.

Isulemms Level 10: Lemming Burner

Save 97% of 40
Release rate 77
2 minutes
14 of each skill

Good: Nice tight time limit, and you really have to be careful with the number of builders, especially if you're going for 100%.
Bad: The three entrances don't achieve as much as I would have liked, since once you've got the lemmings contained you don't have to multitask. The four fire traps to the left of the exit aren't placed right; lemmings walking left along the platform fall to their deaths rather than being burned.

Level 11: Beyond Boundary Lines

No. of Lems: 100
To save: 100
Skills: 2 of each
Time: 5 minutes
RR: 40

Good: You have to use your skills wisely.
Bad: The-precision-is-so-annoying-that-you-have-to-repeat-the-level-a-lot-of-times-until-you-get-it-right.

Isulemms Level 12: After Boundary Lines

Save 96% of 50
Release rate 40
5 minutes
20 builders, 2 of each other

Good: the reversal is a clever idea, or would be if I hadn't seen it several times before. (Adam did the same with Fun 24, and Steaver with Fun 10......)
Bad: way too easy; you could have at least required 100% to make the level a little more respectable!

Level 13: 8 little problems

No. of Lems: 10
To save: 8
Skills: 1 climber, floater, builder, basher, digger, miner, bomber and blocker.
Time: 40 seconds
RR: 1

Good: In my opinion, the best level in the set, because it looks like 8 mini levels in one level. :mikewink: :thumbsup:
Bad: A little annoying.  

Sorry to digress, but what you said reminded me of Mayhem 2.

On many versions of the game (DOS version being one notable exception, since it lacked the fire traps altogether on that level), there are 5 fire traps placed along the pit below the entrance area, with 4 cone-shaped terrain, each placed in between every 2 traps.  If you build from the starting platform so that the lemmings falling off the bridge land on the tip of one of the cones, you'll find that as they walk down the cone they will fall to their death rather than getting burned.

Isulemms Level 14: A cheap difference (part 2)

Save 100% of 175
Release rate 99
1 minute
80 bombers, 1 builder, 1 digger

Good: uses one of the best musics
Bad: very easy and rather pointless...... and also, what's with the title? Where is the difference between this and level 2, and how is it cheap?

Isulemms Level 15: There's a wall between us

100 Lems
50 to save
RR: 50
Time: 7:00
Skills: 3 climbers, 3 floaters, 50 bombers, 50 blockers, 50 builders, 3 bashers, 3 diggers

Good: I dunno, the title doesn't lie. Maybe if you're not paying attention, it seems impossible.

Bad: Well, I can't say when you made this level, but the solution concept has been done to death. Plus, it's a little tedious. I saved 89 on my first try. The song for the level is very short, while the level is a bit long, so it loops a lot...

Level 16: There's another wall between us

No. of Lems: 5
To save: 5
Skills: 1 climber, 2 floaters, 4 bombers, 8 blockers, 16 builders, 32 bashers, 64 miners, 99 diggers
Time: 9 minutes
RR: 99

Good: Nice looking wall! Straightforward.
Bad: The music! It's so awful! Plus, this level's too easy!

Is that really a good thing, though?



I wish I knew the name of it. It's one of those songs that's played before big sports games (football, basketball)... Last year, I was on the 10th floor of a dorm that faced our college's football field. This music starts playing, and then all of a sudden I get the song stuck in my head (not realizing that it's playing completely, maybe thinking that I'm playing Juanjo's space set...), then I go up to the window, and sure enough they were playing it. But what's the song called... does anyone know?

It's straightforward becuase it's not too hard. If you know what tricks to use, this level is straightforward. I have a feeling this level has a backroute, though...
:mikehuh2:

Anyone want to do level 17?

The song is a MIDI version of "The Final Countdown," by a band called "Europe" (Hence, the second part of the "Phone Call from Europe" joke if you ever played my Cheapo notebook set) -- ranked #22 on the list of "50 most awesomely bad songs ever".

Alas, I don't have the style for #17......

Really? I actually quite like it.

The style is Hydra1.sty (High Tech). Download it here: http://www.garjen.co.uk/Lemmings.php

Well, I like "The final countdown". The midi isn't so good, but at all it's a nice song.
Anyway, review of level 17:



Level 17: You're in unknown territory now.

No. of Lems: 50
To save: 45
Skills: 1 blocker, 10 builders, 7 bashers, 2 miners
Time: 4 minutes
RR: 5

Good: By contrast to the first level, this one uses a planned solution. The low nomber of builders puts some difficulty into the level.
Bad: Not hard enough for its position at all; design (perhaps because of the style, I don't like it either).

Level 18: The long road to glory

No. of Lems: 40
To save: 40
Skills: 20 of each
Time: 6 minutes
RR: 50

Good: There's a cool trick for the steel part at the beginning
Bad: Too easy for the last level!

Done! Let's review someone's next set!  :)

Try my first two cheapo levels if you want :P

Ok...

The Blue Line

No. of Lems: 60
To save: 50
Skills: 10 of each
Time: 1 minute 40 seconds
RR: 60

Good: There's a nice trick used there.
Bad: Too annoying.

I hope to make some more cheapo levels soon. I could re-make most of my Custlemm levels in Cheapo :)

Sure, why not?
I think you should use the styles that are rarely used (like Dust.sty, Oldies.sty, etc.)

I've seen styles that Cheapo uses. They are lovely. I'm sorry If my future levels don't look as good because I've just started using Cheapo. I have a Custlemm pack in the middle of development with just 2 levels finished but I will eventually get back to it sometime.

We should be doing Insane Steve's IS1: Difficult next; I suggested it a while back and no-one disagreed.....

We could start Insane Steve's set now couldnt we since we just did 1 of my 2 levels. My future levels can be reviewed in the future :P

Ok. But I already reviewed, so who's going to do level 1?

If you want to do IS01: Difficult as the next set, use the version of it Here.

I think there's 22 levels.

Right!!! (I'll add a screenshot if someone wants to upload one; I don't have enough space to host them myself, alas.)

IS01: Difficult Level 1: Jus' a Warm Up

Save 95% of 80
Release rate 20
5 minutes

20 builders, 1 of each other

Good: Straightforward, with a couple of different routes, and fun to go for 100%
Bad: The solution takes too long and requires too much pausing for a good first level

IS01: Difficult - Level 2: The First of Many

Save 59 of 60
Release rate: 10
Time: 2:22 minutes
Skills: 1 of each

Good: Another nice introduction level being well designed; uses my favourite of the lemmings musics (Rondo alla Turca) ;)
Bad: Doesn't use so many of the skills.

IS01: Difficult -- Level 3: Minimalist Quandry

Save 75% of 20
Release rate 10
2 minutes 27 seconds

10 blockers, 10 builders

Good: As the title implies, a very sparse and simple layout. Teaches a useful trick (building over blockers).
Bad: The misspelling of "quandary". You have to be careful about making the bridge high enough to catch the upper builder, which is perhaps a little nasty for such an early level.

I have webspace to upload screenshots, but not the time to take them. If someone else wants to take and send me screenshots, I'll host them.

I will do the screenshots on my free time.

IS01: Difficult - Level 4: The Pit

Save 2 of 2
Release rate: 99
Time: 1:22 minutes
Skills: 1 of each

Good: Nice symmetrical design, simple level idea.
Bad: The mirrored crystals look a bit strange in contrast to the normal ones if you look closely.

IS01: Difficult -- Level 5: Persistance Builds Character

Save 100% of 75
Release rate 75
5 minutes

5 climbers, floaters, bombers, builders; 1 basher, 1 digger

Good: the title is appropriate to the level!
Bad: not much puzzle; frustratingly awkward; and another misspelling (it's persistence)

IS01: Difficult - Level 6: A bit too far

Number of Lemmings: 10
To be saved : 5
Release Rate: 10
Tools: 10 climbers,1 floater,1 bomber,1 blocker,5 builders,1 basher,1 miner,1 digger

Good: Uses a nice trick
Bad: 5 Lems? You can save more than that

IS01: Difficult -- Level 7: Flooded Basement

Save 92% of 120
Release rate 20
5 minutes 50 seconds

10 climbers, floaters, bombers, builders, diggers; 1 basher, miner, digger

Good: not as obvious at it at first seems, and therefore rather cunning
Bad: too much precision for this early in the series; long tedious building (and especially so when you get to the end only to find you have to go back to the beginning)

IS01: Difficult -- Level 8: Beat the clock

Save 20 of 25
Time: 1:11
Release Rate: 10


Skills: There's 20 of everything

Good: Very tight time limit, you need to find the fastest and most effective way to solve it.

Bad: If it wasn't for the time limit, the level would be a perfect Fun 10, and the scenery is a bit bland.

Time to wait another week before the next level is reviewed ;P

I passed every level in the set last time I played it, but I can't remember how I did level 8  :(

IS01: Difficult -- Level 9: Dream Ledges

Save 100% of 200
Release rate 20
8 minutes 18 seconds

30 builders, 30 bashers

Good: a fun multitasking level, and an exasperating challenge if you want to go for the fewest builders  B)

Bad: the trick pointed at in the hint isn't needed at all. With the release rate so low and so many entrances, each lemming can be finished before the next one from that entrance comes out.

IS01: Difficult - Level 10: Orange Crush

Save 1 of 2
Release rate: 99
Time: 3 minutes 10 seconds
Skills: 1 of each

Good: Orange and grey don't look that bad.
Bad: Solution is quite obvious; bomber timing is annoying, as stated in the hint.

IS01: Difficult -- Level 11: You Know What You Have To Do

Save 100% of 1
Release rate 1
1 minute

1 floater, 1 builder

Good: a completely different type of level, which introduces some variety. Also, one might think that with this type of level it's hard to make some easier than others, but this one definitely is easier than the other three. And the music is very appropriate for the level (there aren't many levels where you can say that!)
Bad: Not much....... too easy for its position, maybe.
(Though I know the position was needed to keep the theme of 1s going!)

In my IS 1 pack, I only seem to have 10 levels. Please could someone send me an updated version?

In the Cheapo level pack topic http://eng-forum.lemmingswelt.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=level_id;action=display;num=1089162351;start=555#555,
reply #563 by Insane Steve, he posted the link to his sets, afaik the latest version.

IS01: Difficult -- Level 12: The Lemming Mental Institution

Save 95% of 100
Release rate: 20
Time: 7 minutes 22 seconds
Skills: 10 bombers, 50 builders, 10 bashers, 10 diggers

Good: The level really looks like a mental institution; the beginning of the music indicates some kind of madness; it's possible to save 100%.
Bad: Due to its size it requires a lot of straight building which can get boring after a while; the 100% route is easier than the one using bombers

IS01 Level 13: Twin Paradox

Save 98% of 60
Release rate 70
5 minutes 14 seconds

5 builders, 1 of each other

Good: I like the idea of having two versions of the same level right next to each other but with totally different solutions -- gives a quite different feel from the old "one easy version, one hard version" routine.

Bad: the obvious solution is the correct solution.

IS01 Level 14: Twin Paradox (Part 2)

Save 58/60
Release rate 70
5 minutes 14 seconds
Skills: 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 bomber, 1 blocker, 5 builders, 2 bashers

Good: Nice second level showing up indeed a very different solution with a minimal change; it was the last level of I.S.01 Difficult I solved; it took me quite some time to figure out, and also now, I had forgotten the solution and I had to think for some minutes to get it again; after knowing the solution it doesn't seem difficult anymore though.
Bad: The bomber timing maybe; might have been placed a little later, but if it should be in position immediately after the first part, then the first one would have been placed too late I think.
The first part seems to have quite a lot of alternative routes btw.

IS01: Difficult -- Level 15: The Obstacle

Save 100% of 120
Release rate 60
3 minutes 28 seconds
1 of each skill

Good: The different way one-way arrows add spice to what would otherwise be a very easy obstacle to get through.

Bad: It's still way too easy to be worthy of placement so late in the set.

Ok, regarding the past comments on my levels (college, ok? I have a very light day today, fortunately)...

Spelling errors on levels 3 and 5 -- I won our school's 2nd and 3rd grade spelling bee. In 5th grade, our spelling words were kindergarden level. No joke (Spell "up". ... Use in sentence. Like, I really wish I were making this up.) and I forgot how to spell. So, ya, words like quandary and persistence are hard for me. I should fix those one of these days.
Save percent on level 6 (5/10, instead of 8/10) -- just a red herring, no more.
Precision in level 7 -- I've had no problems with precision in level 7. I've passed it 4 or 5 times in a row without TOO many problems. Yes, I need all the builders every time, but I don't think I've ever failed the level.
Levels 13 and 14 -- I didn't think 13 was significantly easier than 14, honestly. Easier, definitely. But I don't think the route is THAT obvious. Or maybe it is, I don't know. Yes, I want the levels next to each other, though.
Difficulty of 15 -- Ok, in hindsight, this is a somewhat easy level for middle of the pack. Part of my reasoning is that a lot of the earlier levels are "1 of each" levels, and I didn't want to flood the beginning with them. Then again, all the Lemmings games have a lot of disproportionately easy levels (Taxing 29, anyone?), so... ya.

I don't really play on cheapo that much but it would be good to keep this topic alive  :P

Since no ones posting anything or choosing a pack... do the Ultimate Challenge series next :D

By rule we can't do two or more packs in a row by one author, but we can do one pack from the UC series next if you like -- want to choose which?

And will you help us finish reviewing IS1 so we can get to your pack?

Start with UC1, then when it's done, do another pack, then UC2, then another, and so on. :)

And I haven't played for ages so I can't really review anything sorry!

You can download IS1 here:

http://www.noblesse-oblige.org/insanesteve/IS_Notebook.zip

But we need to get moving again, so I'll review the next level as well.

IS01: Difficult Level 16: The Careless Level

Save 95% of 80
Release rate 9
5 minutes

10 builders, 1 of each other skill

Good: clever and elegant solution, uses all the skills, and 100% is probably possible

Bad: it's SO annoying if you misplace the digger at the beginning and have to go all the way back -- especially as it's just luck finding the right place

*downloads at last*

Will check it out. PS: Lemmings Plus 3 is on the way, about 55% completed.

Cool!

Will you review Level 17 if you pass it?

Will do. However, I'm not a very good level solver, I'm more of a creator.

IS 1 isn't meant to be all that hard to solve in the first place, honestly.

I'd post here more, if, you know, my levels weren't being reviewed.

Hmm, let's do level 17. I actually do like your level, I'm just too lazy (or, call it busy ;)) to write reviews.

IS01: Difficult - Level 17: Up The Pipe
Save 57/60
RR: 01
time: 7 minutes 24 seconds
skills: 60 climbers, 1 of each other skill
Good: Interesting terrain, especially with the pipes and those arrows; also interesting solution idea using some nice tricks.
Bad: It seems quite a bit obvious; however, it's set 1.

btw, for the LemEdit version of the level, the exit doesn't seem to work. I think it's 8-1, or at least, the first level of one of the later packs.

I didn't find "Up the Pipe" too obvious; it was a nice simple solution but it took me a while to think of it. Perfect for its position, in other words.

I seem not to have the style for Level 18.......

Odd. 1.18 is just ISWorld.sty.

I don't have problems with it.

I didn't know there was a Lemedit version of the level. Geoo89 could you show me where to download the Lemedit version?

Later version of the style, perhaps? I checked, and I definitely do have ISWorld.sty....

You can download the pack including that level on Insane Steve's website. It's indeed set 8 level 1.

I dunno, but for level 17, I saw the solution on first glance. Perhaps the top wall was too revealing...

About level 18, it also works for me without problems. It uses the same music as Chaotic 5: Super Happy Fun Panic Level and doesn't seem to use special tiles.

Well, I checked, and "Super Fun Happy Panic Level" doesn't work either. Maybe I do have an earlier version of the style missing that music.

I don't know whether this is the latest version, but at least the level works with it:
http://www.noblesse-oblige.org/insanesteve/ISWorld.sty

OK, working now.

But the level is a new addition to the set, so I shan't post a review until I've solved it.

As an aside to the solver, 1.18 is possible without the FF glitch.

This ain't been touched in ages  :o

Haven't played the rest of Insane Steve's pack but who's passed the rest of the levels?

Gah, thanks for reminding me!

IS01: Difficult Level 18: The Abyss

Save 33% of 3
RR 70
25 seconds
Skills: 1 of each

Good: a very tricksy little level with a simple premiss -- the level would be pointlessly easy with more time, but you don't have more time -- requiring a bit of cleverness for the solution
Bad: I don't know if I found the intended solution or not.

IS01: Difficult - Level 19: 8-3 Staircase
Save 90/100
RR: 05
time: 8:03
Skills: 5 climbers, 5 floaters, 1 bomber, 5 blockers, 15 builders, 1 digger

Good: Nice idea to remake a complete level from another game (although it is said not to be exact); either ways it uses quite a nice trick; nice simple design.
Bad: IIRC, I solved it differently the first time I solved it than this time, therefore it might have a perhaps backroute-like solution; a lot of building, too much IMO; and building over a blocker required (something I don't like for some reason).

IS01: Difficult Level 20: Stairway to Somewhere

Save 49 of 50
Release rate 40
7 minutes 12 seconds

1 floater, 1 blocker, 30 builders

Good: the difficulty is just about right for the end of the first set (I've changed my mind about this now) and it's an interestingly unique level. The 100% solution makes a nice challenge -- satisfying to solve but not *too* frustrating.

Bad: two levels in a row that are almost entirely building

Remember -- my sets are incomplete as of yet (thanks, college). I intend to place levels between the current 1.19 and 1.20, so the straight builder levels can be spaced out a bit.

IS01: Difficult - Level 21: 4 Pillars and a Trap
Save 76/80
Release rate: 30
Time: 3 minutes 15 seconds
Skills: one of each

Good: It's already almost a classic, uses one of each skill most effectively showing up several ways to break through a thin wall and has a simple and clear design.
Bad: The long time of digging is the only thing I can think of.

BTW, I'm almost done with your four sets, Insane Steve. Only one more level to go. I hope you'll get this work ready anytime.

Ah, true.  ;)  No reply to my other comments? I hoped to gently prod you into revealing the intended solution to 1.18 (it hardly spoils anything, since I have solved it now), and I wondered if you'd be interested that 100% is possible on 1.20; or is that old news too?

Anyway, just one level to go of the current version of this set. If no-one else gets there first, I'll have a go at solving it so I can review it; I solved the same level (Phone call from Europe) in a previous version, but using a backroute that has now been removed.

When we're done, Sunrise wanted us to review Ultimate Challenge 1 next. And can we do one of my sets after that?

That was WAY before LP3 was released. I'd much rather see LP3 reviewed than UC. Maybe since there's 5 of IS's packs and 4 of LP3 (5 if you count the two-level Rejected Levels bonus pack), after IS's we can do LP3 Daigoro, then IS's 2nd, then LP3 Kozuka, etc.

Ah, right. Intended solution to 1.18. There's probably lots of back-routes, but this is what I had in mind making the level: (highlight)

RR 99, let 2 lemmings out, RR70 for the third. First blocks almost immediately upon landing, so it turns the second. Second builds. Third mines behind it, cutting out a slight chunk of the staircase without undermining the builder. Second lemming turns, fall facing right, and is mad ea floater (maybe) right before hitting hte ground.

I didn't think 1.20 was 100%able upon making it, but now I can see it. Although, it looks a lot harder than the lose 1 solution.

BTW, geoo,  which one level you have left? I'll have to finish the other 30 sometime soon.

I have no objection to doing LP3 Daigoro next, but I don't want to have to wait for another eight packs to be reviewed before mine get a chance! So I'm going to make a new rule: each designer can have only one pack on the "waiting list" at once -- that gives other people the chance to ask for theirs to be reviewed once the current pack is finished.

Don't worry, I'm sure we'll get round to doing all four LP3 packs eventually!  ;)

Right. That's pretty much my solution, then, except I didn't bother with the RR changes. And I was lucky with my placement and didn't need the floater.


Yes. Remember how when I first solved 1.20 I complained it was too hard for its position? That was because I'd found an unnecessarily tricky way to do it. The 100% solution combines that idea with the main solution, so it's even trickier.

'Sometime soon' sounds good. ;)

The only level missing for me is Hopeless 18: 3M; that means between the last time I told you my status I solved Attack Of The Subconscious and Back And Forth.
For the former one I needed a huge amount of tries for some reason, but now knowing the solution I understand that you were surprised that I hadn't solved it at that point. I had thought that the solutions wouldn't be possible because the [highlight]long way miner[/highlight] would be too slow to break through right in time.
For Back and Forth, I was always two builders short until I found a different way. That way I could solve it with two spare builders.

For 3M, I hadn't played it too much because of the lots of building, and now after some more playing I didn't work out a solution yet. Additionally, the time limit seems to be very tight.

For 3M, if I remember correctly, the time limit I selected was exactly 15 seconds more than the part of the level that took the longest to solve when played separately. Because I'm not the most economical with time, you probably have about 20 extra seconds. Which, given that you have to balance 3 rather tedious (again, I apologise for that) parts of the solution with only 20 seconds to mess with, is very, very tight.

When I make the rest of the levels and re-order my sets, 3M will be 4.28. The last level will remain last, and 4.29 is a conceptual level that I haven't gotten to designing yet that WILL, I'm fairly certain, be the hardest to figure out level I've ever made.

Daigoro would be absolutely fine to review next. I think I've gotten most of them except a couple of the trickier ones, and I'm sure with a bit more patience I can get those that I'm missing, which means I can be a reviewer for that pack. Again, I think my pack took so long because I can't review my own levels.

I've played the Custlemm version of a few of your levels Insane Steve and I am really proud to say that you have some nice looking levels  :)

Excellent!

You shouldn't have any problem with the remaining levels, they're all at least fairly straightforward. Only one I still haven't got is number 16, and I also haven't yet found the 100% solutions on levels 11, 13 or 20. Not that I've spent very much time on them yet, I was in more of a hurry to press on with the next set after I'd solved all of this one.

And now!

IS01: Difficult Level 22: Phone Call from Europe

Save 98% of 160
Release rate 88
2 minutes 13 seconds

3 climbers, 1 of each other skill

Good: an elegant little level that isn't as straightforward as it first appears, and great music  ;)

Bad: I'm not too wild about the way my backroute's been cut out by cutting little holes in the bricks -- it doesn't look all that attractive, if you ask me. But it's your level.

Good or bad, not sure: I might have found another backroute, or it might just be an alternative solution. Either way, I still didn't need the floater.

Thanks! I have a lot of levels on Cheapo that aren't on CustLemm, though (mainly due to how annoying a few of them would be without fast forward), so you may want to check them and a few of the other packs from other authors out.

You should need the floater for 1.22... So ya, another backroute. And maybe even more holes in the terrain. The reason that level looks so bizarre is because it was intended for the sequel to the MS Paint Adventure pack... so it was all made with Paint, except the metal. That pack was never completed, though: I think I had 2 total levels -- that and a level where you used bombers to blow a hole through George W. Bush's face to get to the exit in his mouth. Hahaha.

LP3 Daigoro: Level 1

Block Blow Go

Save 5/20, 5 minutes, RR 1
20 Bombers, 20 Blockers

Good: A good instructional tool for how to use blockers and bombers. Designed so that it isn't hard to pass, but can't be passed until the player can understand the concepts behind blockers and bombers.
Bad: Actual terrain looks a bit sloppy. Also, why training levels? I mean, if a player is interested enough in Lemmings to find Cheapo, I'd assume they know what the skills do...  ;)

Bah, didn't stop me including training levels in my sets  ;)  It's a nice way to begin.

I'll tell you my solution to 1.22 so you can judge whether you want to eliminate it or not:

First lemming climbs, another lemming blocks to seal off the teleport. RR 99. Climber goes over the one-way wall and up the next wall and digs down it. Make two more lemmings climb, very close to each other, timed to reach the digger when he's some way below the level of the crowd. When they pass him and start to climb up the wall of his tunnel, have him mine, which will turn the other two climbers round. One of them bashes the one-way wall, turning the other, who bombs a hole in the little structure on the bottom level. Meanwhile the digger/miner goes ahead to build to the exit.

Lemmings Plus 3 Diagoro
Level 2: Let's Build and Bash

Save 66% of 30
Release rate 50
7 minutes
50 builders, 20 bashers

Good: slightly harder than #1 as you need to think about crowd control
Bad: I think it's a bit too tedious for a training level, but then, so was "Now use miners and climbers". Also, the title is a rip-off of "Let's block and blow"  ::)

I guess I shouldn't review my own levels, but since it's only the training ones, I'll help get to the real ones quicker. ^_^

That Floater Is Mine
--------------------
Style: Pillar
Lemmings: 10
Save: 10 (100%)
Time: 5:00
RR: 1
Skills: 0/10/0/0/0/0/10/0

(yeah, I copied and pasted that from a data file I have)

Good: A fairly easy level, while still requiring the player to understand the horizontal aspect of miners.
Bad: Can be confusing at first for a training level.

Right, so let's have done with these training levels now!

Lemmings Plus 3: Diagoro
Level 4: Dig the Climb

Save 100% of 20
Release rate 1
5 minutes

20 climbers, 20 diggers

Good: introduces some not-at-first-sight-obvious aspects of these skills -- the fact that a climber will always climb a wall and can't be stopped, and the trick of spacing diggers so as not to make one long drop
Bad: having to click on every lemming is a bit tedious

LP3: Daigoro
Level 5: Until we Lem Again

To Save: 16/20
RR: 10
Time: 8 min.

Skills: All have 20

Good: There are many ways to solve this level, and it's quite fun. This is actually one of my favorite levels.
Bad: It may be a little confusing at first.

I won't review any of my PROPER levels. But I must agree with you IE - "Until We Lem Again" is a very fun level.

PS: I've been playing some of IS's levels so I'll actually be able to review them next time around. I find the 3rd "You Know What You Have To Do" harder than the 4th, by the way.

LP3 Daigoro Level 6: Burnt to a Crisp

Save 16/20, RR 1, 7 minutes

15 of all skills

Good: The terrain is well placed. It also requires a rather interesting thought process to pass.
Bad: Far too difficult to be 1.6. Seriously. Also, the hint insinuates that a direct route to the right was impossible, although that's pretty much exactly how I passed it.

Regarding my 1.22, that's a very easy to fix back-route; just remove one climber. The intended route requires 2. Thanks for pointing it out, though.

LP3 Daigoro
Level 7: Lemmings For Breakfast

Save 8/20, RR 50, 8 minutes
Skills are all 20

Good: Again, a fun level with multiple solutions. The steel traps are placed nicely. Also one of my favorites.
Bad: Sometimes it can be frustrating

1.9, 2.5 and 2.19(with the intended solution) are much better examples of "too difficult for their positions".

No, my route is still possible with just two climbers -- the climber who bashes the one-way wall can later bomb the structure on the bottom level.

One possible fix (although I don't know whether this would disrupt the main solution): remove one climber and make a hole at the bottom of the long vertical wall of pink blocks so that if the lemmings turn back to the left they will walk off the level.

Lemmings Plus 3: Daigoro
Level 8: Forever Seven

Save 80% of 20
Release rate 20
7 minutes
30 of each skill

Good: the difficulty is just right for its position, and the level has unique features that make it fun to play. The time limit is generous and allows you to experiment  :P  and 100% is possible
Bad: I hate this music..... and if I have to say something bad about the level itself, I guess the right half is fairly pointless

Forever Seven is probably my favourite of Daigoro. :)

One of my favourites too, as you can probably tell from how much good I had to say about it  ;)  Why the title, though? I'm curious.

Lemmings Plus 3: Daigoro - Level 9: Catastrophe
Save 20 of 20
Release rate: 1
Time: 2 minutes
Skills: 1 builder, 20 of each other skill
Good: I like the design for some reason; shows up (intentionally) a nice use of an (at least for experts) known trick.
Bad: Compared to the levels before, it is, as stated in the introduction, lots harder than those, such a difference doesn't even appear in the original lemmings, and by far not at such an early position; has a backroute*.

*) You can simply solve it using the trick[highlight]to create a step into the terrain when you have a basher build during his stroke[/highlight]. However you could easily remove this backdoor removing the builder (since there's a way to do the intended solution without not using the builder), it would make the level even more difficult compared to the others though.

I did wonder why we were given one builder, unless it was to make us look harder, since with just one builder you look first for where you can use it, and it might take some time before you look for solutions that don't use the builder at all.

LP3 Daigoro Level 10: Lemmaga

Save 16/20
Release Rate 1
All skills 10
3 minutes 30 seconds

Good: Multiple solutions (most of these levels have multiple solutions!), nice design.
Bad: Sometimes it can be tedious

About the name: It's actually a password I used to use. I just put the word "forever" (don't remember why), and since it needed to be 8 characters, I randomly chose to put the number 7 on the end. And I thought now that that'd make a cool level name.

About "Catastrophe": No builderless solutions were intended. But I can think of one, not sure if the time limit would allow it though.

And yes, Ice_Eagle, pretty much all the Daigoro levels have multiple solutions. The only ones that don't have multiple intended solutions(other than the training levels) are "Burnt To A Crisp", "Catastrophe", "It's Over There" and "The Incinerator". And only the first two are for difficulty - the other two are simply too simple to have multiple solutions. (Well, if you count "The Incinerator"'s 100% solution, it has multiple solutions, but the 100% solution is only very slightly different to the normal one)

The builderless solution to Catastrophe: bash, go up the mesh, bash, then when the first lemming reaches the protrusion, mine as he turns round to make a "step". Make all the lemmings climb and bash along the top to the exit.

Especially given the hint, I'm surprised to hear that isn't the intended route!

Lemmings Plus 3: Diagoro
Level 11: Jyuuichi No Level

Save 75% of 20
Release rate 1
8 minutes

Skills: 15 of each

Good: a nice step up in complexity without being too difficult; the 100% solution (which I have now achieved! yay!) is well concealed and requires some genuinely new tricks
Bad: having to drop into the exit (and repeat the entire level if you get it wrong) is annoying

(I'm not including the pack name, as everyone knows which one it is)
Level 12: Road to Nowhere

Save 19/20
RR 1
9 minutes

20 for all skills...

Good: A fun level.
Bad: Seriously, the music doesn't fit inside the whole game. Also, why were musics 4, 16 and 17 of Lemmings Plus 3 skipped? If I have to say anything bad about the level, it's that some parts of the terrain aren't used.

4 and 5 I don't like, 16 and 17 I don't have (and don't like 16).

And if you think terrain is unused... wait for the harder version, Zanmato 17 "To The End!". Apart from that pillar at the start and one other piece(which I won't reveal, to avoid giving away the solution), all the terrain is used. Revealing about the pillar isn't a major giveway, it's impossible to get to in the harder version anyway, as you have no builders.

Lemmings Plus 3: Diagoro
Level 13: Road From Nowhere

Save 95% of 20
Release rate 1
9 minutes
Skills: 20 of each

Good: Nice twinning idea, playing the previous level in reverse, and mercifully the backwards route is a bit quicker.
Bad: invisible metal and a hidden trap make the beginning part unfairly hard, especially when trying for 100% (which I have now achieved! yay!)

Keep in mind with Road To Nowhere and Road From Nowhere, the harder version "To The End!" was designed first, unlike with most levels where the easier version was. The hidden steel adds to the challenge a small bit, and you should expect stuff like that towards the end.

Shi Ka Inochi

Lems 10/20
RR 1
Six Minutes
All of the skills are 5

Good: The level design is cool, as it looks like a palace room. I also like the fact that all skills are 5 because it makes finding solutions more fun.
Bad: Nothing bad, this level is cool!

Someone's bound to ask, so the translation of Shi ka Inochi is "Life Or Death".

LP3 Daigoro - Level 15: Lane of Lament
   
Save 16/20
RR: 99
Time: 3:00
Skills: 20 of everything

Good: Reminiscent of Oblivion, alliterative title...

Bad: With 20 of everything, this is very easy (I realize this is the easy set, but still).

The first two Lane Of Laments are very easy to anyone, and the 4th is easy to those who know the Oblivion trick. The 3rd one, however, is a different story.

Anyone gonna do 16?

The fourth Lane of Lament is also fairly easy without the Oblivion trick -- that's how I got 100%.

LP3: Diagoro
Level 16: Even To The Last Lemming

Save 90% of 20
Release rate 10
6 minutes

15 climbers, floaters, bombers, blockers, builders

Good: well, it's unique -- fun to watch the lemmings getting stuck in between the icicles! There are a couple of different routes -- definitely the most fun one is not to restrain the crowd, but hurry to build a landing platform before you run out of floaters. Having bombers as the only destructive skill adds an extra layer of challenge.
Bad: I'm damned if I can see how to get 100%.......  >:(

Try a different approach. I'm sure it's one you're familiar with, but maybe aren't thinking of using. It's annoying to pull off, but it works!

Oh, I think I see what you mean........

Level 17: It's Over There

Save 19/20, 3 minutes, RR 1
20 of all tasks

Good: A good way to show the player how to control the crowd in ways that don't involve placing two blockers and blowing them up to release the crowd. Also requires some thought to get to the exit. 100% isn't a stretch, either.

Bad: The hint is kind of misleading -- you don't need blockers at all with the 1 release rate...

OK, I probably did it the really unnecessarily complicated way, but I did it.......

So tell me, what's the really simple way that I missed?

Well, my 100% solution used only 1 climber, and 1 floater (same lemming). It uses all but 1 of the builders (maybe could use even 1 fewer). You know that trick where you build 7 pixels tall to turn the rest of the lemmings around? It uses a variation of that, and then the lone lemming who goes to the right builds the minimal path over the icicles and back and such.

That's the first thing I thought of, but I couldn't see how to get it to work. How do you get past the point where the icicles come together and there's only one pixel between them?

EDIT: I've tried it and it seems to run one builder short. Five are needed to trap the crowd, one to release them. You need one to build at the base of the icicles (there's a glitch and you can't climb straight up). Two to build the landing platform, two to reach the exit, that leaves four and that's not enough to build out of the gap the lemmings get stuck in. With just one more, it would be possible.......

Shadows

16/20
RR1
20 all skills
5 min

G: Level nicely done, fun to save all lems
B: The part where you build across the water isn't fun...

No. Four are needed to trap the crowd.



Don't let them get stuck in the first place! :P


Give me a minute, I'll post a screenshot. (Make that several hours, going out.)

Edit: Screenshots (I've got them, but server not responding at the moment.)

That's pretty much how I did it too.

Lemmings Plus 3: Diagoro
Level 19: Sariacht Lemmings

Save 83% of 30
Release rate 15
8 minutes

20 of each skill

Good: The main solution teaches a useful trick, but building up is more fun!
Bad: Why waste space on a hint saying that building up is impossible when it isn't?

Yay! The last level!  ;D

The Incinerator
12/20
RR1
7min
20 all skills but builders, which are 50

G: Nice use of the build and block trick
B: Man! This level's annoying, especially building at the top part when you have to avoid that fire box under the exit!

We're done! Yay!  [smiley=cool.gif] What pack should we review next?

Hahaha, I was just about to review that level.

Logical follow-up packs include Ahribar's unreleased-ish packs, or one of my harder packs (probably #2), or maybe... Hmmm....

I.S. Notebook Set 2. Then LP3 Kozuka. Then I.S. Notebook Set 3. Then LP3 Wakizashi. Then I.S. Notebook Set 4. Then finally, LP3 Zanmato. Then, I dunno.


I.S. Notebook Set 2 - Level 1 - "And They're Off!"
Lemmings: 30
Save: 30
Time: 1:21
RR: 99
Skills: 1 of each
Good: Quite simple, without being blatantly obvious.
Bad: Dunno really.

Don't forget this post:

I have a better idea actually. Why don't we have seperate topics for small packs(like Ultimate Challenge for example) and large packs(like Lemmings Plus 3)?

I like the "ish"  ;)

Steaver's started reviewing your #2 in the other topic, so let's do one of my sets in this one! I've put together a preview set containing 20 of the best of the medium-difficulty levels. Downloads:

http://repton.freespaces.com

COPYRIGHT NOTICE

The intro screen image of the MichaelSnow style is copyright by Jace Mouse and is used in this style by permission of the copyright holder. It may not be extracted from the style or used for any other purpose without his permission.

That over, the levels themselves. Levels 1-6 are from my Zany (third difficulty) set, 7-15 from Lunatic (fourth) and 16-20 from Manic (fifth). The early levels of each set are meant to be easier than the late levels of the previous set, so you may notice some odd jumps in difficulty. Nevertheless, if you find a level a lot easier or harder than its position suggests, I don't mind if you mention this as a bad feature -- I'd like to know.

I've included a guide, a bit like Sunrise's one for LP3, saying what my records are for the most saved on each level, and giving outline solutions. Please, if you solve any of the levels, even ones you're not reviewing, have a look at this guide -- quite a few of the levels I haven't shown to anyone yet, so there may be plenty of backroutes I need to know about so I can deal with them.

And finally, have fun!  ;D

The link does not work. It caused it to show an error screen.   :(

Yeah.... that would be the data transfer limit. I've moved the downloads to freespaces. (Many thanks, Sunrise!)

Link from the main page, or else copy/paste into adress bar. It doesn't seem very Mozilla-friendly though. Make sure you set up a proper HTML page, ie with <html> <head> etc.

In case anyone's missed this in all the confusion: the download link above should be working now. Please have a look at my levels (and the styles, for those who haven't seen them yet)  ;)

(Oh, and don't forget to look at the hints on the levels.... there's a nice little piece of information on one of them. I won't say any more than that.)

Level 1 - The Three Tools Of Death
Lemmings: 80
Save: 80
Time: 2:00
RR: 1
Skills: 1 of each, except 5 builders

Good: A very fun level. Quite a challenge as well.
Bad: That trap is evil. Also, I don't like four-directional scrolling.

Level 2: From the Other Side
Save 30/40, RR 1, 3 minutes
3 climbers, 2 bombers, 2 blockers, 3 builders, 1 basher, 1 digger

Good: A neat take on an original Lemmings level. The solution is clever, and because I didn't notice that I could lose 10, I spent a bit more time than I should trying to figure out how to turn a lemming on the tower. (Yes, I consider having to think about things like that a good thing)
Bad: A bit annoying timing the bombs (but not too bad at all, really... this is a well-made level and that was all I can think of).

"     3: Goblin City

10/10
RR99
4min
10 floats, builds, bashes

Good: Cool level design that matches the title. It's easy and fun to find the "long way" solution.
Bad: A very annoying level.

I've uploaded a new version to fix a backroute Sunrise nearly found on "From the Other Side". He couldn't quite get it to work, but I could. It uses the little stairs at the base of the wall, so I removed them.

The backroute:
RR82. Third and fourth lems block to hold the crowd in a one-pixel space. First lem bombs at corner of platform. Second lem builds twice, stretching the bridge to get over the little steps. Climb up and dig right down the far edge of the wall. Build against the steps to turn round. Bomb the right-hand blocker (timer should read 24 seconds). Make the climber bash the wall and use the fast-forward glitch. 36/40.

Level 4: Lemming Dilemma
Save 10/10, RR 1, 1 minute
1 bomber, 1 blocker, 5 builders, 5 diggers

Good: A very nice level with a dual solution -- I like the concept of both exits being accessable with two uniquely separate solutions for the level -- it adds a challenge. Nice terrain, also, although this can be said for a lot of your levels. The timer forces you to be efficient with your tasks.
Bad: Misleading hint. I find the right side both easier to figure out and easier to execute, personally.

Oh! You've found a backroute and I think I know what it is. I can remove it by deleting the blocker, right?

There are quite a few ways (variants on the same solution really) to reach the left exit -- some of them at least should cause no difficulty in execution whatever.

I'll upload a corrected version of the set later tonight.

Incidentally, I'm glad you like the "two solutions" device. It's one of my favourite devices as well, as you can see from how often I use it...... Goblin City, both Repton levels, Through the Lemming Glass...... but ironically not Lemming Dilemma! The right-exit solution was completely unintended; I owe it to ccexplore's genius, but I'm glad he found it because it makes me like the level a lot more.

No... I used all the builders and 4 diggers in my solution, but not the blocker. I think I finished with 1 second left, although my solution may be refinable to finish with 2 or 3.

I failed about 10 times going for the left, but saw the right-hand solution I wanted almost immediately. It took I think 3 tries, although now I think I see a near foolproof way to get into the left side.

OK. That's either a serious backroute or the main solution. You'll have to PM me so that I know which!  ;)

I did find an appallingly easy backroute using the blocker, so I'm going to have to take it out anyway. (Dig down the edge. Second and third lems build to delay. Fourth goes down and builds to the exit. Make the digger block and the rest is obvious.)

So..... has the Prelude defeated all solvers? Or is it just so uninteresting that no-one can think of anything good or bad to say about it?

I can't review until someone does #5.

I was actually very impressed with this pack, in general -- it's one of the few that fuses excellent aesthetic terrain with challenging puzzles. ("Why Bother?" stands out as another pack like this.) I mean, take my levels for example -- good puzzles, but I think there's something to be desired appearance-wise for a lot of them.

Thank you, Steve!  :)  Being compared to "Why Bother?" is a great honour even if it is in a "this set tries to do the same kind of thing but won't ever be nearly as good" kind of way.

I am pleased with these levels compared with my earlier attempts; it took me a lot of practice before I could learn to make hard puzzles that weren't riddled with backroutes! (Most of my levels still have backroutes when I first build them, of course, but I think I've got better at finding them and working out how to deal with them. Yeah, I know Lemming Dilemma was one I fluffed badly, but if ccexplore didn't find it, how could you expect me to?)

As for level 5, you can review two in a row if it becomes necessary to keep the thread going, but I don't think we're there yet, so let's wait and see if ccexplore or someone else would like to give it a go.

(I'm just curious to see if anyone's found the 100% solution on level 5 yet. That is, I think, one of my hardest puzzles so far.)

Please please please  ;D  But I accept that your tax return is a little more urgent.


Ctrl-H is how you use the hint feature. (And ctrl-N to show the second hint if there's more than one, and ctrl-S to make it go away again after you've read it.) The girl in the centre is Ruby, also a very good friend.

Incidentally, Jayelinda is coming to visit in just 12 days now! I'm getting ever so excited.

Doesn't use any sort of trick. What's the trick you have in mind?

And I know you like to be secretive about your tricks, but honestly, if you find a backroute you should tell me -- at least tell me that there is one! What's the point in me showing you my levels at all if I can't trust you to do that?

What was the point of saying "Don't bash her" if you have no bashers anyway?

I think I've found it. Leader digs down the edge, builds when far enough down, digs when above air, builds to exit, while the second lemming traps the crowd in a shallow dig pit and builds them out at the end; right? If so, you're right that Insane Steve's solution is very similar but marginally more difficult. But it's still -- especially your version -- a lot easier to think of and execute than the left-exit solution, as well as using fewer skills (since the left solution requires turning one lemming with a separate dig/build) -- and since the right exit is meant to be much harder -- indeed, until you found your beautiful solution I was quite happy to leave it impossible -- I don't see how you can't consider that a backroute, and a very damaging one at that.

EDIT: please do tell me your "Prelude" solutions! You're only the second person to solve it and tell me they've solved it, and the first was a backroute that I've already eliminated.

It's called "humour".  ;)

I just worked out another solution for getting into the right exit for Lemming Dilemma; it uses a glitch though:
Increase the RR when the second lemming is out, and have the first dig nearby the edge that there's a 1px wide pillar of terrain left to the right. Have at some point a lemming build to the right that he gets through the pillar, stop him making him digger after having set three steps. Have him build to the exit.
Release the other lemmings making on of them walking to the left dig that the other digger is released. Have him build to the wall to turn around. All lemmings should get in right in time.

As for prelude, I had alsmost got it when four lemmings walked past one of the teleporters thus causing me  to get only 32 instead of 36 in. In my solutions I went down at the left.

Nice.  ;)  I always approve of other people checking the unorthodox and roundabout routes just in case I've left in a way that shouldn't work. I try to check them myself, of course, but I find I'm not very good at thinking of everything!

6) All your base are belong to us.

1. Nice catch. I've fixed it, but it may take me a while to get round to putting up the corrected version.

2. What you're seeing is that the trapdoor "wing" contains two colours, and the pixels of these happen to be present in different proportions in the last two frames because of the way it opens at an angle. It's exactly the same in all the styles except Pink (which uses a different, ten-frame trapdoor animation), but most noticeable in Column because in this style the two colours used are furthest apart. Nothing to fix there.

3. True, but I like that graphic and I found the digits readable enough for it to be usable. I'd rather not change it, but I'll consider it if you think it's a big problem.

4. I'll see what I can do about this one when Jayelinda visits the week after next -- she's the Photoshop expert. I think what's happened is that as I've made the lettering so much darker, the border pixels, which are meant to be very faint to give the impression of a nicely rounded curve, have become darker than they should. I know it's annoying, but it wasn't easy to get the lettering to be the dark colour I wanted it. One improvement I've already made -- there was a pixel in the "9" that should have been black (and hence revealed the background) but wasn't. That's made it a little bit nicer to look at, at least!

5. Ah yes, the infamous blank line glitch. For some reason Cheapo automatically inserts one when the line is a certain length; adding a line break won't help. (Actually, I'm pretty sure there was one anyway; I always use manual line breaks to prevent words being split between lines.) I've taken out the word "then", which is the best solution I could find.

That's annoying. Could you PM me with the details?


But that would leave gaps here and there corresponding to some of the bits that are currently "behind" the toolbar graphics.

Mm, but I don't think I have the original graphic any more!

As for the backroutes, I'll get working on them soon; they look fixable, but it might take a bit of time.

Don't bother. I checked again and you were right -- I hadn't replaced the colours in the very last frame. I've fixed it now and will upload a corrected version soon (I want to get on with debugging "The Hotel in Hell" first.....)

Meanwhile, anyone going to review Level 6? I know it's dull -- too much straight building -- but it's not that hard; someone must have passed it?

OK, I've uploaded new versions of the preview set (should have eradicated backroutes on "The Hotel in Hell") and of the Fire and Sand styles (both in styles1.zip). I'm afraid you do need to download the new version of the styles for "The Hotel in Hell" to work properly (although it is a tiny difference).

EDIT: set uploaded again (one more backroute eradicated). And all 22 styles are now up!

Link again, for those who want it:
http://repton.freespaces.com

EDIT 2: whoever's reviewing "Lemmings of the ZBB" (which comes next) might want to download the new version from the above link. Not much has changed. Just the hint.

Go for it -- I don't think anyone else is going to be bothered.  :(

It's a fair point..... on the other hand, I couldn't bear the thought of people being able to bash and dig all over my wonderful friends!

I'm kind of hoping this level won't stand out (in a bad way) too much when it's in the complete set; I've learnt a lot about level designing since my early days and I'm trying to cut down on the number of levels that are mainly building. I just wondered if people thought it was so bad that it really needs to be changed?

Of course I wasn't thinking of taking the level out.... just seeing if I could change it a bit. I'll have a look at it, anyhow.

And yah. Since you don't like "Lemming Tower of Pizza" either, I'm going to up the save requirement to 15/30. Then at least it will be unique in one way -- absolutely horrible precision!

Let me guess.... make a pit with two bombers to contain the crowd while the bridge is being built? I can't remember offhand whether the platform is deep enough.

I've uploaded a new version with the following changes:

* I've done something rather different with "Lemmings of the ZBB" (as well as replacing two of the photos, but that's a ZBB matter... no-one I've fallen out with, just old friends leaving and new ones being made). I couldn't figure out how to make it into a puzzle level, but I've gone for "short and annoying" in preference to "long and boring". At least it does something none of my other levels do -- that, to me, makes it worth its place. In a set of 180 levels (hopefully), you've got to have one that tests your multitasking and listening for clicks skills to a really annoying extent. Just one.

* "The Lemming Tower of Pizza" now requires 15/30 to be saved. Same rationale -- I have to have just one level that tests pinpoint precision.

* "The Hotel in Hell" has been radically de-backrouted and moved to a later position in the set. Speaking of which, ccexplore, did you ever find the intended solution, or do you want me to give it to you?

And now, who's going to take on "Vignette"?

I'm going to review level 8 instead. I like that level.

Level 7: Vignette

Skills: 2 blockers, 5 builders, 2 diggers
Save: 100%

Good: Teaches the player a rather useful trick for releasing blockers. Also, the design is very nice, like a lot of your levels.
Bad: Suffers from not having enough incorrect options for the player -- it would be hard to find the solution, but there's almost nothing to try but the correct solution.

Level 8: Changing of the Guards

Save 5/10
Time: 1 min
Skills: 1 of everything except miner and basher
RR 50

Good:
1. I find it fun to find the solution in this level. This is one of my favorite levels.
2. The music matches the level.
3. The style itself is great - including the new trap with the bubbles shooting out of the gun. They make the level look very nice and catchy.

Bad: Timing that bomber is annoying, but other than that the level is excellent!

Another strange glitch when trying to create levels for the two Special Graphic Styles:

6) When clicking on a "What an AWESOME level" piece or an "A BeastII of a level" piece all I see is part of the piece. Only the "MENACING" pieces show whole pieces when clicking on them.

Very peculiar -- you haven't seen my level "The Land of Nightmare" but it uses pieces from all three sub-styles and I didn't have any problems. Nor have I changed the background colour since.

However -- with some regret, I have to add -- to get rid of the problem I've replaced the background with the same purplish colour the other styles use.  Makes it look a lot less snazzy, but at least it functions correctly. Re-download "styles1" and "styles2" to get the new versions (for both Xtnd and Xtnd2).

Also -- sorry about this -- please re-download the preview set. I hadn't realised that because I'd given the new version of the ZBB level a different filename while I was testing it, when I generated the set it still used the old one!

Anyone doing level 9?

Probably not, it's another boring lots-of-building level. Leave it a bit longer, though, just in case someone feels up to it.

Well, you can see all the water objects, you just can't see their full extent. (This is true on many, many original levels too.) My styles currently don't permit different sized water objects, so I didn't have much choice.

I've made a small change to the set; only Level 13 (Repton 3: Toccata) is changed, so you need to download the new version if you're going to review that level.

Let's skip Level 9, which is a load of crap. Anyone want to take Level 10?

Thanks for the review anyhow. (Out of curiosity, which of the two solutions did you find?)

I'd be very interested to see your review of Level 10, so feel free to post an "unofficial" review, but I think you should wait until someone else has posted the official one! Always good to get as many people's thoughts as possible, both to know which levels need improving, and if people like them enough that they don't need improving, to know what are the good features people want more of in future levels.

I nominate my pack next after Ahribar's pack.

It was mentioned in the super-pack topic that Special_Gunpowder's pack would be reviewed after Ahribar's; but since you called it in the appropriate thread I suppose his can come after yours.

Yes, we'll do "Why Bother?" and then Ice Eagle's set.

Meanwhile, I've uploaded the set again replacing the unsalvageable Level 4 with a new level, "Close to the Edge". But let's no bother going back to review that one.

Who's taking "Just a Minute (Part Four)"?

From the the other forum:

Level 10: Just a Minute (Part Four)

Save 80/80
RR 10
Time: 1 minute

Skills: 3 climbers, bombers, bashers, diggers

Good: Nice remake of the Just a Minute levels. Fairly challenging.
Bad: Gah! So annoying! Hints are vague, very frustrating.

Is anybody going to review Level 11? We need to get back to this topic; drumnbach and I are waiting for our packs to be reviewed!

The forum seems to be dying...... it's not just this topic.  :-/

It's because of all that downtime :(

Ya.

There a way to inform the people who haven't posted here that the forum is back up?

By e-mailing them?

Ahribar: I have noticed a glitch on level 11: the lemmings won't exit the level. Was this on purpose or an accident?

And another slight mistake I noticed in the MichaelXtnd Styles:

7) The "I" in the introductory/level failed/level complete screens looks a little stretchy.

Crap. Ah well, should be fixed now.

(As for the "I", that's just a feature of Peter's lettering. It's the same on all the styles.)

Meanwhile, I don't mind if we take the levels out of order, so Steve, will you do Level 12?

I would if I could remember its solution -- I know I passed it right when you released the set, but I've since forgotten the answer and my recent attempts to recall it have come up short.

Heh.  ;)  As a reminder, the download link if you want a working version of Level 11 is http://repton.freespaces.com . Since it's been such a while, anyone can go next, and we can do 11 and 12 in either order if it helps us get moving again!

ccexplore, I remember you also wanted to add a review of Level 10?

Nuntar, I think you should switch Level 4 with Level 2. Level 4 is easier than Level 2. And Level 15 should be placed after Level 8; it's easier than levels 9-14. Only the precision makes this level pretty hard.

I've said this already, but I'll go over it again.

My levels, when they're finished, will be in six sets. Each set is harder than the one before, but that doesn't mean level 1 of a set is harder than level 30 of the previous set; I prefer to overlap them a little. For the preview, I haven't re-ordered the levels in difficulty order; I've left them in set order. Level 15, a very early level of set 5, is of course easier than some of the levels that come before it from set 4; it's meant to be.

As for Level 4, do you mean the old one (Lemming Dilemma) or the new (Close to the Edge)? As I said earlier, I'm abandonding Lemming Dilemma due to unfixable backroutes. If you meant Close to the Edge, well, that one's new so it hasn't had time to find its proper place yet. I might move it around a bit.

I mean "Close to the Edge."

You could add a review, even if it's out of order, since we won't be going back from the beginning  ;)  And I think you're right..... I'll reconsider the order when I do the actual set.

Sorry about the insane multiple post, btw (which I think I've dealt with now) -- the forum was being particularly stubborn just then.

Everyone hates the forum lag. If only Andi would fix it!

Anyways, I'll review the new Level 4:

Close to the Edge
Lemmings: 9/10
Skills: 1 bomber, blocker and basher, 10 builders.
Release Rate 1

Good: Very cool remake of Fun 10. Finding the solution is quite fun.
Bad: Keeping the lemmings under control is annoying

I would want to review level 15 too...

We'll hopefully get to Level 15 soon..... if someone will start us off by reviewing Level 11! (Reminder, you need to download the new version, http://repton.freespaces.com )

Btw, for the preview I've just used random musics making sure I didn't use the same one twice, so that I could try some of the new ones out. Levels won't necessarily have the same musics in the finished sets (and so you probably shouldn't use it as a point in future reviews).

Haven't posted for quite some time since I'm also doing some other things (you know, I often tend to do what I'm in mood for), and additionally sometimes the forum has been lagging so extremely that I couldn't access it at all.
In fact, it's the first time now since the re-awakening of this forum that I there's almost no lag for me. Anyway:

Michael Preview 2 - Level 11: Minesweeper Lemmings
Save 40/40
Relesase Rate: 40
Time: 4 minutes
Skills: 3 climbers, 3 floaters, 6 builders, 6 miners

Good: Very original idea for a special graphics level that's applicable to make a rather difficult level; requires quite a bit of thinking to work out a proper solution; a couple of solutions seem possible at first glance (perhaps there are also a couple possibilities?).
Bad: The fire don't suit the level so well, and they don't seem to be necessary at all; it's not immediately visible that you have to build into the exit to get the lemmings in.

btw, has anyone tried my CustLem levels a little more closely so far?

:-/  OK, next time I need to get a message across I'll write it in 48-point text so you can't possibly miss it. That was a bug, and I uploaded a fixed version several days ago.  :)

I know of three solutions to the level -- I'll have to go back and check them now to see if any of them can be done with a builder to spare or whether you've found a backroute.


Not me -- your levels are always way too hard for me.

Hmm, something weird's going on  :(  I seem to have deleted ccexplore's e-mails with the solutions to that level, so I can't check them. Maybe you could just tell me your solution?

The fires, btw, are both necessary to prevent backroutes.

Oh, sorry for that. I thought I had the newest version of it (there are so many versions I have... ;)), but seemingly I hadn't. Perhaps you should indeed write it in 48-pt for me, at least I cannot remember having read it yesterday...I seemingly wasn't attentive anymore that evening. :-?
I think I should cross out the wrong things in my review now...

EDIT: Hmm, there doesn't seem to remain much for bad then...it was already difficult to find those few points.

As for my solution, I sent it to you quite some time ago.

Heh. Don't worry about it.

And now that I look, you did indeed send me your solution ages ago -- it just didn't register at the time that you mentioned having to build into the exit. I'm not sure whether to count it a backroute or not -- you do have a builder to spare (on the revised version) but you need all the miners; whereas I think a couple of the other solutions finish with a miner spare instead. Maybe I'll look at this one again when I'm through writing my essay  ;)

Okay...I changed the review. But seriously, that use of that Lemmings Paintball music is cool!

People need to get back on this topic. Who's doing level 12?

Not just this topic...
It's not the first forum I have to experience this.
Anyway, I might do level 12 if I hadn't done level 11. Perhaps I should do it sometime though...

We could just pretend levels 12 and 13 are the other way round  ;)  .... I imagine then we'll run into the same problem with level 14, but meh.

Well, since you don't mind taking the levels out of order I'll do Level 13.

Repton 3: Toccata
Release Rate: Can't remember. 1?
Save 59/60
Time: 3:00 (I can't remember the exact time limit. It's been a while since I solved this level)
Skills: 1 climber, blocker, basher, miner, digger, 6 builders

Good: Easier than the Prelude, and not as confusing.
Bad: It's annoying timing those builders and other skills but other than that this level isn't bad.

Michael Preview 2 - Level 12: Up on the Roof
Release Rate: 99
Save 2/2
Time: 3:30
Skills: 1 climber, 10 builders, 3 miners, 3 diggers

Good: Level looks not too difficult at the first glance, however you need to work out a way not to get out of builders; uses not so many lemmings.
Bad: IIRC, there were some problems with where and when exactly to set up some certain builders causing the need to restart the level; I don't like the design so much, but that's just my taste.

Level 15: Did you ever see a lemming?
Release Rate 75
Save 30 out of 30 (I think)
Time: 1 minute
Skills: 2 bashers, miners, diggers

Good: Makes you think about how to turn the lemmings around without builders and blockers
Bad: It's frustrating timing those skills

Which means we now need someone to do Level 14. That's "Ordeal by Fire", isn't it? ...... I guess if no-one wants to do a full review, all I really need on that one is someone to say whether it's so mindlessly boring that I ought to scrap it completely, or what I should do with it.

Well, I can't review it because I didn't solve it, and since I didn't solve it I cannot say whether it's incredibly boring.

It's just that I don't like builder levels, and since I obvoiusly looks like it requires loads of building, I'm not gonna try it.

But would you be happy with a sketch for the solution? I could try to find a solution using sketches and send it to you, and then write a provisional review.

Yeah, that would be fine.

I might see if I can cut down the amount of building sometime..... what do you think would be the maximum number of builders on a level you'd be interested in playing?

Umm, that's certainly a difficult question. After having done a sketch, perhaps even 40, but it really depends on the level. I could say the minimum a level requires for the idea still working. The longer the distances to build, the less exact placement should be required, because the measuring with the eye gets less exact; and it shouldn't (or IMO mustn't) be required to try the solution you worked out a couple of times to either solve the level or even worse, notice that it doesn't work. A good example is Insane Steve's "Stairway to Somewhere", it requires quite a lot of building, but after you worked out a solution you can pull it off with just one try because there's no exact placement required.
But the exactlyness of the required solution is something I don't know about yet, therefore I cannot judge that right now; after evaluating the sketch I might be able to do so.

And another thing: I don't want you just to change a level because I don't like the building or something about it. I'm not the only one playing your levels. ;)

Style suggestion for Nuntar:

For styles that have the number 2 next to them (like MichaelBlue2.sty, MichaelXtnd2.sty, etc.), musics 33-40 should replace musics
2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 12, 14, 15, and the rest of those musics that you got from Dragonslover.